As we are getting ready to conclude our quarter, we are going to start coming full circle, and as such, we'll come back to one of our original questions: feminism vs romance. After reading, "The Interpersonal Power of Feminism: Is Feminism Good for Romantic Relationships?", I want you to think about the question this article takes up: is feminism good for romance? Don't take a side rather engage with the reading as well as past readings and class discussions to think about this question in a thoughtful and informed way. Use specific examples from the class, from your own life, and from pop culture.
Per normal 250-400 words. Dialogue with one another.
Due: Monday, November 5, 2012 by class.
As a woman, I have always felt that it is important for people who share a relationship to share similar views and beliefs as well. It just seems natural that those who view the word similarly should be better able to avoid and resolve conflict based upon these beliefs.
ReplyDeleteIn my own life, I have been in relationships that have been “mismatched” when it came to beliefs. I was liberal, and he was conservative, or he was religious, and I was not. Every time that I had one of these relationships, more conflict arose based on these issues, and needless to say none of them lasted very long. However, my relationships that have been based on similar values and viewpoints have been the only long term relationships I have ever had. In these relationships, things like politics or religion or gender equality were never an issue or cause of conflict because we believed similar things about these topics. In this way, I definitely believe that maintaining like ideals can have a positive effect on relationships.
Feminism is no different. However, I don’t know that feminism necessarily has a positive effect on every relationship. While it may not have a negative effect, those who are feminist but have relationships with non-feminist partners may not be as well matched in terms of similar values or beliefs. Therefore, it is my opinion that feminism can be “good” for relationships, but mainly in a situation where both people subscribe to feminist ideals.
This idea is also supported in the article “The Interpersonal Power of Feminism – Is Feminism Good for Romantic Relationships?” According to the results of this study, “feminism may indirectly promote relationship health, through the selection of like-minded partners” (Rudman et al.791). This was determined because of the fact that women who were paired with feminist men tended to report better relationship health (Rudman et al.791). This leads me to believe that the relationships which are shared by people with similar beliefs tend to be more successful, and as proven by this study, this seems to be true for feminism as well.
Because of the fact that I have experienced the differences between relationships based on different and like ideals, as well as the information that was presented to us by this study, I think that I can confidently say that if both partners in a relationship have feminist ideals, this can have a positive effect on the relationship. However, I do not feel that this is because of feminism itself. Whether it is politics, religion, animal rights, or any other topic, similar beliefs will always have a positive effect on a relationship. Feminism is simply one of these topics.
Can feminism and romance coexist? When I began this class, my answer was a definitive yes. I was certain that a woman could commit herself to a relationship and to a career and women’s rights all at the same time. Although my belief that feminism and romance can coexist remains the same today, I realized something in this article that I hadn’t before. When thinking about feminism and romance, I always focused on the woman. I thought: yes, a woman can have it all, including the romance. Unfortunately, I was missing out on an important part of relationships: the man!! Relationships and romance require two people, and that is the point where feminism and romance can become tricky.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading this study, I concluded that feminism and romance can coexist, but it is significantly more likely to coexist peacefully if both partners support it. This is where a lot of issues arise because, according to the study, “men paired with feminist women reported less agreement about equality issues” and that “women rated higher on the feminism index than men”. This data really supports Meg assertion that relationships in which both partners are equally matched and have similar values tend to work out better than relationships in which the partners have different values. However, I think the issue is much deeper and more concerning than simply the fact that some women date guys who are not supportive of feminism. I think there is a big problem with the fact that many men don’t identify with or support feminism.
I think what is so telling about modern romance novels is that they involve male characters that aren’t opposed to feminist ideals. Royce, Branson and Cullum weren’t necessarily threatened by their wives’ success and independence. They recognized the women’s strength, intelligence and independence and fell in love with them for those traits. There is a huge disconnect between men and women today if men don’t embrace the newly developing independence of women. Feminism and romance might be able to coexist peacefully if both men and women are on the same page about gender equality. Maybe the issue of feminism and romance is not females being with the wrong men, but men not realizing (or being taught) the importance and value of feminism. In order for coexistence to occur, maybe feminists need to focus more intently on educating males and bringing about more feminist attitudes within their gender rather than focusing solely on women.
The misconceptions and false stereotypes of how a feminist looks and acts can simply reflect ignorance. Laurie Rudman in "The Interpersonal Power of Feminism: Is Feminism Good for Romantic Relationships?," claims, “Negative stereotypes suggest they are likely to be single, lesbian, and unattractive, but are they?” (Rudman 797). Through research, it is clear these conclusions are nonsense. In fact, feminist women are more likely to experience successful, intimate relationships. Stable and satisfied relationships are more dependent on the members’ views on equality.
ReplyDeleteAlong with Meg, I have experienced relationships interfered with and ended over an opposing view in some area. “Men who are mismatched on feminism with their partners might show decreased relationship health” (792 Rudman). Personally, through my current relationship, I have struggled to reach a common ground on feminism. I constantly wonder the root of this cause. Alexandra presents a great discovery, in that men are essential components of feminism, but, unfortunately, are less likely to support feminism. Ultimately, this incohesion can interfere with intimate relationships, not the fact that one member is feminist. In Rudman’s study, we learn that heterosexual men are less likely to support feminism. I wonder if it’s the pressure of male’s masculinity and power, presented by society.
The lack of male's support, addressed by Alexandra, can be solved with one solution. I think the absence of education in this field contributes to the people's ignorance. As students, most of us don’t get the exposure we need in our early education systems. Instead, throughout high school, we'll study gym and take food classes, studying the utensils of the kitchen and how to cook a good waffle. But, we won’t quite reach feminism. In addition, given the opportunity to take a feminism course, many, especially men, may feel uncomfortable getting involved. If students of both genders could be educated, we may have a better understanding of what feminism is and how it does not detract from a healthy relationship.
After reading this article, I find myself still a bit confused about feminism and romance co-existing. I’m conflicted is all, that I believe feminism and romance can exist but this article brought up an important question. That being what did the researchers consider being feminist? Through out this class, we have learned that there can be various different definitions of being a feminist and what feminism is. We also have learned that these definitions can change over time due to the three waves of feminism from the article “Sexy from the Start”. The different generations of women have different perceptions of both what they consider themselves and the general definition of feminism. In the reading “The Interpersonal Power of Feminism: Is Feminism Good for Romantic Relationships?” the differences in generations were even acknowledged by the researchers that “[p]ersons coming of age in a particular historical period share a similar consciousness” (Rudman et al 793), thus yielding different results for Study 2 than Study 1 because of the samples they surveyed.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, I feel as if regardless of what the definition an individual has about feminism, it is still able to co-exist with romance. As Lexi and Sarah mentioned, one of the most important parts to this dynamic is what role the man plays. Before reading this study, I never really thought about the idea that a man can be feminist as well. This shifted what I thought entirely, because if a man can be feminist, then that means there will be more ground on which the couple agrees upon and be like what Meg said, that they can have a possible greater chance at the relationship lasting longer.
Another point that I found interesting was that the results of this study found that “[c]ontrary to popular beliefs, feminism may improve the quality of relationships, as opposed to undermining them” (Rudman et al 798-799). I agree with Lexi when she thinks that a major contributing factor is that men do not oppose the idea of feminism, especially in romance novels. She’s right, that the male characters in The MacGregor Brides do not seem to be threatened or are concerned with the fact that the woman they are in love with are strong, independent, successful and confident feminists. I think Cullum is the best demonstration of this because he realizes the thing he loves most about Julia is that they always argue with each other, that she is able to stand her own ground and voice her opinion. He doesn’t even like it when she changes to become nice and “submissive”, he wants the old Julia back, the feminist one that he fell in love with.
So, I think that the question of whether or not feminism and romance can co-exist is left up to each individual person to decide based on what their own definitions of feminism and romance are. For me, I do think that they can co-exist and my personal belief is that feminism can be good for the romance depending on how the couple perceives each to be, but I think it can have its benefits for a relationship. I also hope that as society keeps progressing, the misconceptions and stereotypes about both feminism and romance will continue to be proved as wrong, that they are quite the opposite and as a matter of fact, help one another as depicted through the results of this study.
Throughout the quarter we have consistently discussed the impact that feminism and romance have on each other. It has become evident that there are many stereotypes that influence people’s view on both feminism and romance. These common stereotypes lead to beliefs about what a feminist is and what a romantic is that are skewed or inaccurate. After reading the study, it is apparent that one of these stereotypes is the idea that feminism causes the failure of relationships between a man and a woman. The study proved that this may be an inaccurate assumption. More often than not, feminist beliefs have a positive and strengthening influence on romantic heterosexual relationships.
ReplyDeleteAccording to the study there is, “Scant evidence that women’s feminism troubles their intimate relationships…feminist women did not report decreased relationship quality or stability, although they tended to report more conflict regarding equality in the relationship compared with non-feminist women” (Rudman 797). This further asserts that the stereotype of feminism leading to failed relationships is inaccurate. It also explains that feminism does not seem to influence the value or strength of a relationship, but demonstrates that a difference in beliefs may lead to disagreements about the equality within a relationship. This supports Meg’s idea that relationships with similar beliefs are often more well-rounded and successful than those that consist of two people who disagree on an important issue such as a women’s role in the partnership. From my experience, people tend to be more well-suited if they share similar beliefs. It eliminates some of the arguments that arise due to incompatibility of values. This is not to say that relationships with dissimilar beliefs will not work out, but rather may have a weaker relationship health than those that consist of two people who support feminist ideals.
Stereotypes that exist surrounding feminism and romance can be very misleading. The success of a relationship is not necessarily dependent on compatible beliefs about feminism, although this may have an effect on the health of the relationship. Whether or not feminism is good for romantic relationships is very situational. The influence of feminism depends on what a couple is looking for in their partnership. As Sarah said, it is important that people begin to be educated more thoroughly about what feminism is. When people realize that it is not simply women controlling men, the stereotype that is has a negative influence on heterosexual relationships may be diminished. The study recognizes the importance of education as well. Rudman states, “It will be important for future research to examine whether educating people might alleviate their concerns that the Women’s Movement has disrupted heterosexual relations” (Rudman 798). This education needs to exist for both men and women to create a more well-rounded view of the meaning of feminism and its influence on the relationship between men and women both romantically and otherwise.
People say that opposites attract, and sometimes, I believe that is true. However, I believe that what might be opposite are there strengths and weakness, so that they balance one another out. What cannot be opposite are their political, religious, feminist, etc. viewpoints. Like Meg and Sarah, I have also experienced relationships that have been hindered by opposing ideals. My best friend in fact, is someone that I care enough for to potentially enter into a relationship with, but for the fact that I know it would not work out due to our differing viewpoints. We manage to stay as the closest of friends because we merely avoid sensitive topics, already aware of what the other will say, but if we were to become more, this tactic would no longer be sufficient, and I know we would both be left worse off.
ReplyDeleteI believe that ideas about feminism fall into the category of that which must match up with a potential partner. Partners need to support one another, and if a woman has the idea in her head that she wants to go out and work, but the man believes that women should only stay in the kitchen all day, the might have a slight issue. “It was possible that older feminist women would have expectations for gender fairness that, if not met, could breed dissatisfaction. They may also have higher expectations of their partners (e.g. for and intimacy) compared with non-feminists” (Rudman 793). I completely agree with Meg’s opinion that feminism is no different from topics like politics and religion, and while feminism itself might not cause any negative effects, it could hurt a relationship if the partner’s views on feminism are not the same.
However, I have seen one situation in particular where feminism truly helps a relationship, and that is with my oldest sister. In previous years, she has often had relationships fail because she is consumed by just the relationship, to the point where she does not truly have anything else going on in her life. In her current relationship, my sister has her own activities to focus on in her life, and the romance merely supplements her happiness. “Indeed, women who automatically associate make partners with chivalry and heroism (e.g. Prince Charming, White Knight) also show less interest in financial independence and leadership roles, suggesting that implicit romantic fantasies can curtail women’s ambitions” (Rudman 788). Ever since my sister “reclaimed her feminism” in a sense, finally choosing to become a person in her own right, instead of an extension of whatever man she was with at the time, her relationships have improved dramatically. So in a way, I guess feminism truly does help relationships.
Is feminism good for romantic relationships? This is a question I have never really thought about until I came into this class. Before I would have thought that it is impossible to consider the two concepts anything but inseparable. After reading this article, I realized that there can be some instances where the two do not work together. Similarly to Lexi, I had never thought about a male’s perspective in a relationship. But I now think that it is very important to consider a male’s perspective because he is half of the relationship. Like Lexi said “Relationships and romance require two people.” This study which encompasses both male and female perspectives brings in a whole new view on the way people view feminism and romance.
ReplyDeleteMost of the articles that we have read have been articles based on one or two people’s opinions on what they have researched, like Moran’s book; it is mostly her own opinion towards feminism and how others should view feminism, or Phillips’ excerpt on how feminists can be in romance novels. But the one thing this article does different is that it is a study that collects the feelings of multiple people and creates data from their collections. From this we can see that on average “Because self and partner’s feminism did not interact, it appears that being a male feminist and having a feminist partner may have opposing effects on agreement about relationship equality” or that one study “may be more likely to show an incompatibility between feminism and romantic relationships,” (792) than another, it all depends on the results and is not deemed to be set in stone as other authors suggest.
I agree with Sarah that lack of education creates a misunderstanding of feminism and romance, and I think these studies help to educate people in a way that is different from everyone else; it doesn’t make you feel obligated to feel one way or another, but rather see the facts as they are.
I believe that feminism is good for romance. According to the Interpersonal Power of Feminism: Is Feminism Good for Romantic Relationships? Article, they concluded that “the overall pattern suggests that for men, feminism (for self and partners) may be beneficial for their relationships, rather than problematic” (Rudman797). Scientifically feminism does have healthy relationships.
ReplyDeleteAs we have discussed all this quarter, romance is part of an activist’s act of feminism. We are now in the third wave, not the second wave. In this wave it’s alright to be attractive, smart, and have a romantic relationship. For example Moran, in her radio talk show, she talks about her marriage, she is a feminist, and it is not affecting her relationship. However I do believe that if you’re a feminist and your partner is not, there will be issues. According to the study, we can see that is true,” feminism
May indirectly promote relationship health, through the
Selection of like-minded partners” (Rudman719). In Sexy from the Start we read about Helen Brown, she was part of the third wave, and the third wave is not only about fashion, but embracing yourself, with embracing it also means having relationships.
I agree with Meg when she says” As a woman, I have always felt that it is important for people who share a relationship to share similar views and beliefs as well. It just seems natural that those who view the word similarly should be better able to avoid and resolve conflict based upon these beliefs.” In a summer course I took it talked about healthy relationships. In order to have a successful one it’s important to know similar stay together longer then opposites. This does not only relate with feminism, but with qualities in a person.
In our Macgregor’s reading we see how the couples that are paired up are not similar, but do share similar views.
I agree with Fendi, this science experiment can be limited to what feminism is, because feminism takes allot of different roads.
This is an interesting question, and I think there are many answers one could give. For one, I think your answer would depend on your certain definition of romance. If we were discussing the type of romance we talk about in class, I would agree that feminism is good for romance. There was a study done within the article that said, “there was virtually no evidence that feminism is incompatible with romance. In fact we consistently found that feminist men are important for women’s relationship health.” This is an interesting thought, that not only is woman’s feminist views important for romance, but also a man’s shared view. Like Alexandra said, “We are now in the third wave, not the second wave. In this wave it’s alright to be attractive, smart, and have a romantic relationship.” This is the type of romantic relationship I’m talking about, a real 21st century relationship where women can work and the man can stay home, a modern relationship.
ReplyDeleteThe other side of this argument comes from the ideal romantic relationship. These are most commonly found in movies or books, but some of these occur in real life. Most often in these relationships, women are considered “less” than men, over emotional, and completely dependent on others, specifically their husband. I thought to myself, is feminism good for this type of romance? And personally, I believe it is not. I think specifically to Twilight, Edward has to constantly protect Bella. What would happen if one day she just asserted her independence and didn’t need him anymore? I feel like their romance would be affected. A lot of the time in these situations, the men in the relationship do not want to feel emasculated, so the woman just plays into the “damsel in distress” character to help him achieve a healthy level of self-confidence. Many feminists would roll their eyes at this type of relationship, but honestly, if it works for them, it works for them.
With this said, I believe it is not only important for women to be feminists, but men as well. This is essential for a romance to work in a relationship. If the man is not a feminist as well, it is possible he does not respect women. He may respect his wife, but he does not respect women as a whole, and this is a problem. This has always been the problem. The good news is, we’re moving in a positive direction, and although the feminist movement is far from over, it has come far for under 100 years, and will continue to go far in the next 100 years.
After reading this study done on feminism and romance, I must admit I am still quite confused. The results in the survey were mostly inconclusive and vague. I agree with Lexi that after reading this study, I feel that feminism and romance can coexist more peacefully if both partners support it. Although it is generally believed that people who have the same views, whether it be politics, religion, etc. will get along better and have better relationships, I feel that being able to get along with people who have different and even contrasting opinions is one of the most important characteristics a person can have, as well as always being open to listen to new ideas.
ReplyDeleteI never thought too much about juggling feminism and romance until I began this course. The more that I began to think about my relationships as well as my friends relationships, the more I realized how important it is that every couple supports one other equally. If a relationship is not equal, it will not be as healthy or stable in the long run. “In each study, women reported greater relationship quality, equality, and stability to the extent they perceived their partner to be a feminist; they also reported greater sexual satisfaction in Study 2. Thus, feminist male partners may be important for healthy romantic relationships.” (Rudman 797). Therefore, my conclusion is that a couple may have different opinions about certain topics, but they must always look at each other as equals.
Can feminism help romance? This is a question we have been looking at from the beginning of this class. This article encouraged us to look at everything from a different point of view. I began to think of the male perspective and how he views relationships. When a man dates a woman who is not very feministic he is likely to get bored of her. Men like the chase just as much as they like having the girl. They want a woman to challenge them and have her own opinions. Like Lauren said, “This study which encompasses both male and female perspectives brings in a whole new view on the way people view feminism and romance.” Lauren explains how looking at relationships from a different view changes how feminism and romance is viewed.
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting when the article explains that people often think of feminists as ugly or lesbians. This is a stereotype that I understand where it comes from but I also believe is very un-true. A woman choses to be a feminist because she wants equal rights to men. She does not want to be beneath him. She does not have to be a lesbian to wish for these rights. Another misconception is how most feminists hate men like the article explains, “Further, the media often portrays feminists as radical man-haters, which could lead to the perception that they are lesbians who resent men” (788). Often feminists come with stereotypes but very rarely are any of them true. It is not necessarily true that woman hate men just because they are a feminist. They just want to be equal to him.
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ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteThe key to a successful romance is: ___________ .
It’s impossible to determine a single factor that promotes the success of a romantic relationship. In fact, for many couples, the formula may seem to be exactly right, yet their relationships still fail. In high school, I dated my best friend for a year and a half, and he was everything I’d ever wanted: funny, sweet, motivated in school, brown hair with brown eyes, and great with my parents. Our friends used to tell us we were “meant to be” as if Cupid himself had come down and shot us both. However, our relationship failed in a large, humiliating fashion that I never could have predicted. Therefore, there is no way to say certain attributes or beliefs, such as feminism, induce the perfect atmosphere for a great relationship.
Life always gets in the way.
I don’t stop at this pessimistic, generalist point of view though because I know certain things do matter. As Meg said, differences in moral values or beliefs can cause conflicts in relationships. When couples do not agree on politics, religion, and I would include feminism, conflicts can arouse because these values are not easy to compromise on. These values incorporate a deeper, animalistic instinct about right and wrong, and couples should agree on moral dilemmas such as these in order to be more compatible. I agree with Mackenzie when she said she knows certain relationships will never work because they have different values; I have had the feeling myself. However, feminism is more than just a moral value that should be matched up— it is the imperative route to independence in a relationship.
A successful romantic relationship properly balances independence and dependence. The study concluded that feminists experienced greater satisfaction with a feminist-minded partner (796). I believe this is true because pairing a feminist woman with a feminist-minded partner induces an atmosphere in which both members of the relationship can make choices independent of gender roles and stereotypes. Feminism promotes gender equality, and an appreciation of gender equality allows people to more freely choose what to do with their lives. Thus, with the help of feminism and independence, each member of the relationship has increased access to personal happiness that is not dependent on the status of their romantic relationship.
Relationships do need intimate and emotional dependence too in order to create a true, special partnership. Feminism can help fill this need as well; according to the study, feminist partners “may have higher expectations (eg for emotion support and intimacy) compared with non-feminists” (793). Therefore, feminists expect to be treated specially by their partners, and this heightened expectation facilitates a healthy dependency in romantic relationships.
In other terms, romantic relationships cannot succeed or fail due to a single attribute. However, the balance between dependence and independence, partly affected by the role of feminism, can be a major influence on romantic relationships today.
The question of if feminism is good for romance is extremely vague. Like Fendi said, we have gone over the many different definitions of feminism and romance, thus, it would be extremely hard to conduct a thorough investigation over this subject since it is such a vague topic that everyone has a different definition for. However, if we were to consider moderate feminists then feminism would be good for romance. Feminist ideals would have to be shared between both of the people within this relationship.
ReplyDeleteLike Lauren said most of the articles that we have read within this class have basically one specific perspective. It is either feminist or romantic and the authors very rarely take into consideration the male perspective. “Feminist men showed more agreement about gender equality in the relationship, whereas, in partial support of hypothesis 1, men paired with feminist women partners showed less agreement about gender equality” (Rudman, 795).
I agree with Lauren such that the misunderstanding between men and women and the different perspectives and definitions that they have about what is feminist and what is romantic actually causes conflict. If we were to educate one another, then we would be able to make romance benefit feminism and feminism benefit romance.
And finally the circle is starting to form...for eight weeks now we have questioned, examined, and discussed feminism and romance as separate entities and the combination of both. I have learned to view each in a different light from all different angles. But now that we are approaching the end we have some questions still hanging over our heads. How does feminism affect romance you ask? Well it all depends! In the study, "The Interpersonal Power of Feminism: Is Feminism Good for Romantic Relationships?" different methods were taken to find out if feminism had a positive or negative impact on romance. At the end of many studies it was found that "we found scant evidence that women’s feminism troubles their intimate relationships. In the laboratory study, feminist women did not report decreased relationship quality and stability," (Rudman Phelan 797).
ReplyDeleteI do not look at feminism as good or bad for relationships because as we have learned in class there is a broad scale of who can be considered a feminist and what makes romance. As Sarah and Meg both discussed they have experienced relationships that have struggled due to different views and beliefs. I feel that it is not even so much that peoples beliefs are different and that causes them to fight, but they are afraid of being changed or influenced by the other persons views. Throughout this quarter I have met boys and when they have asked me what FSEM I was in I would tell them and the response was fairly the same across the board. They may laugh a little or tell me they are sorry for me. Despite the fact that after I told them this bit of information they may have subconsciously looked at me differently it never seemed to affect our interaction for the rest of the night. Now this may have been because I was not dating them or romantically involved, but in college on the weekends there is a nature of flirting and my point is that my being any bit of a feminist did not change our interaction.
I believe that it all depends on the situation. If a woman is a feminist and they want to push that upon the person they are romantically involved with it could have negative effects, but if a woman simply states her views without pressuring the guy the relationship should remain as it was before.